Points in the Paint

Fantasy Basketball Opinions, Strategy & Tips

To Veto… or not to Veto…

Posted by Erik on February 3, 2008

It’s either early in the morning, while sipping a cup of coffee before work or late at night after school; you’re checking on your fantasy team’s standings and/or your email and there you see it… an alert that a trade has been accepted in your Fantasy Basketball League! WHAT DO YOU DO?

Well some people just don’t take it seriously (well probably because they’re not part of the trade) and either ignore the pending transaction altogether or simply click on veto, just for hell of it.

It’s nice to think that there are managers out there in the Fantasy Hoop world who do take trades seriously and spend the time and think on whether a trade SHOULD be vetoed or NOT.

On that note I’d like to share a couple of posts from the message boards of one of the custom leagues I’m in this year. It’s a 9-cat, 18-man, head to head league, with a trade reject time of 4 and trade review set to commissioner. Internally arranged is a setting that a 50% veto vote is required before the commissioner can veto a pending trade. This was to prevent a few managers from vetoing trades just for the f*ck of it or for strategic denial of player exchanges. It’s been a general practice to post a simple message on the boards when you want to express your desire to veto a trade.

A trade of LaMarcus Aldridge for Jose Calderon was recently accepted and here are two posts by Ogre and Money explaining their veto votes. I’ve edited the posts for grammar and formatting, removed private information and used pseudonyms for my co-managers’ privacy.

OGRE

Since someone pointed out their reason why they didn’t veto and someone else is curious, I’ll provide an insight on why i vetoed.

Its nothing personal, its just an opinion. I have no qualms if other managers feel its a fair trade.

Just view the trade and check out the stats below. Sorry, I couldn’t format it very well.

O-Rank Rank FG% FT% 3PTM PTS REB AST ST BLK TO
LaMarcus Aldridge (Por – PF,C) NY 56 81 .487 .759 0 687 296 45 23 46 70
Jose Calderon (Tor – PG) LAL 143 17 .521 .916 47 553 143 395 48 3 71

Point #1
Easily, Calderon wins 5 categories (FG FT 3PTM AST STL) and Aldridge wins 3 categories (PTS REB BLK). TO, its a tie since the difference is negligible. I think I can sum it up that 5 3.

Point #2
Rank means the season ranking of the player while 0-Rank is the career ranking of the player. As for my experience, O-Rank is normally useless in gauging a trade while Rank is a somewhat good indicator of how well a player is doing in the current season. Calderon is rank 17 while
Aldridge is rank 81. Again to sum it up, 17 – 81. I am not saying the Rank column is an accurate way of gauging a trade. It just an indicator and it maybe used as a guideline.

Point#3
In our League page, Go to News & Expert Advice and then go to Keys to Success. Check out who is in it and who isn’t in it for both Rot & H2H. Check out who is number 1. Check out if Calderon and Aldridge is in it. Again I am not saying this is an accurate gauge but its definitely a statistical point to consider.

In the end, its all up to the league and managers who will and will not veto. That is why we have a 50% vetoing system.

Hopefully in next year’s League we’ll have all active managers voicing our their opinions in trades and vetoes.

At worse, I think I have given a useful post on how to gauge a trade. 🙂

PEACE!

MONEY

Whoa! My sentiments exactly! (minus the stats and the cool keys-to-success rankings).
It’s fair that the Calderon stats posted by Ogre were season stats. Remember that he was playing minimal minutes for about a month before TJ Ford went down.

Based on our league’s 9-cat rankings for the past month on per game average, JC is ranked 8TH! Above the likes of Kobe, KG and Chris Paul! JC Superstar!

In exchange for Aldridge, I’d PROBABLY be willing to give up Marvin Williams. But for Calderon, I’d PROBABLY trade any one of my players not named Amare and Manu. Not just because my PGs stink. Thank God my own JC (Jamal Crawford) is finally PG-eligible.

If we were to draft now, I’d PROBABLY draft Calderon around the Kidd-Deron-Roy area or even earlier. Aldridge?…maybe around the 60-70th pick range. For me, what makes JC special are the high shooting percentages and his spakling assist-TO rate. He’s currently 50-40-90. That’s FG%-3PT%-FT%. I read somewhere that there were only about 5 players (Bird & Nash are two) in NBA HISTORY to finish a season with those lofty percentages. For me, JC’s much like Steve Nash with a lil less 3s and points but a lot less TOs.

The Raptors have also confirmed that JC’s got a chokehold of the starting PG spot even if/when TJ returns. So this isn’t a short-term gig for him. And he’s proven even last season that he can be a big fantasy producer when given enough PT.

And he’s very consistent too. In my humble opinion, with my limited experience in fantasy games, I think consistency is an underrated aspect of H2H fantasy basketball. When you know what to expect from players and the players actually perform up to expectations on a consistent basis, it’s much easier to plan for matchups and fill the holes in your lineup.

Lastly, among Aldridge’s stronger cats (PTS, REBS, BLKS), I think only the BLKS are difficult to “supplement” with FA/waiver pickups. I think PTS and boards are the easiest cats to fill. This is highly debatable though.

My 2 cents. TGIF!

Cheers to both of you, Money and Ogre! Thanks for sharing your insights on the trade and explaining your votes.

I’m glad that these two managers have decided to be vocal about their views. It encourages the other managers in the league, well at least those who bother to read the message boards, to think about trades that are pending. Frankly, any serious manager should. Trades and other moves made by your competition affects you too…

As you can see, this post was not really intended to teach anyone how to decide on whether to veto a proposed trade per se but more of an encouragement for managers to be more involved in the vetoing function of the game. I hope the posts of my fellow managers have brought a small spark of interest and inspiration to undertake a more in-depth thought process. Make your votes count. Believe me! It’s been such a bummer to say the least to be part of a league where some managers get away with ridiculous bloody murder in terms of clearly unfair trades as you watch helplessly due to the apathy of the other league members who don’t care enough about the game… You know something’s imbalanced or at least amiss when one team owns Shawn Marion, Yao Ming, Chris Paul, Rich Jefferson and some other worthwhile players in a 20-man league. Well that’s in another league and meant for another rant in another post… ’til then cheers!

o0o

I’ve recently treated myself and bought a laptop! W00t! I guess I now have one less excuse not to post on my blog.

So Cheers to my new laptop! Cheers to Fantasy Basketball! and Cheers to all Fantasy Basketball Bloggers out there!

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3 Responses to “To Veto… or not to Veto…”

  1. Rick said

    I would never veto any trade as long as there’s no collusion involved. As long as both managers believe that their teams are bettered by the trade, then so be it. Otherwise, why not just let the league run all the teams? Taking advantage of managers who have weaknesses, such as those who love certain teams or players or positions is part of the game. Disguising trades by making them bigger and more complicated is also another part of the toolbox. So on the Calderon for Aldridge trade cited, I don’t think this is vetoable under any circumstance.

  2. Great post, I wouldn’t have any qualms with this trade going through. Aldridge has a lot of value as he is a young potential stud on his team. Calderon is new on the scene (from no where like Kevin Martin last year). Ford could come back and take the role back, I think Toronto is looking to move 1 of those 2 so they want high trade value in Calderon, he could get traded and split minutes easily.

    Anyway…..in my league we have 16 teams and 1/3 of protest votes are needed to veto. In order for a protest to count they have to email the commish with a legit concern. This keeps their “strategy” hidden from the rest of the league, and also makes them take a minute of thought before hitting veto.

  3. Erik said

    Thanks for your comments. There ended up a total of only 3 veto votes for that particular trade. So it seems that the majority of the managers agreed with both of you. I personally did NOT veto the the trade. Roughly for the same reasons both of you presented.

    As I said, this post was not necessarily in support of what the two managers were trying to point out but in support of how active/vocal managers can and should be regarding trades that go on in a league.

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